I’ve recently pulled my finger out and started to delve into the world of harmonic mixing, which so far has proved to be very interesting. I primarily create mixes centred around underground house music (deep / tech / techno). I’m a very competent DJ and favour long drawn out smooth seamless blends and harmonic mixing thus far has helped me to match records that might not have instantly jumped out at me creating some rather cool transitions. Naturally I’ll try not to get too immersed in this technique as it’s not the be all and end all to creating smooth mixes, however I was interested in hearing from you fellow DJ’s and boarders on the subject of harmonic mixing. I’d initially be interested in hearing about where you start on the harmonic scale, for example I’ve been starting at A Minor as I have a lot of records in the key and it also seems to be quite a subdued key, which is great for kicking off a mix that can build and build. However, I have experienced an initial problem as I have set myself the task of creating a mix where the track list is dictated by key and harmonic mixing. Essentially I’d like to create a mix where the key changes for each records, hopefully creating a building sensation for the duration of the mix and then dips down and it is this I’d like to discuss with you. Secondly I have also found that some keys are unavailable to me a present as I have just simply not found tracks in those keys, so I have had to work my way along changing key each track until I hit a key where I have no tracks, at this point I am forced to change direction.

Perhaps we could work with the example of creating a mix that is 12 records long, assuming that you’ll play approximately 5 minutes per track that means the mix should come out at about an hour long, give or take, which is a pretty good length since most hard media (in my case CD’s) can support a mix that is one hour long and it’s roughly around about the standard length of most mix albums give or take a few.

One of the issue I have is know which direction to follow to create a building sensation and I was hoping that someone on here might have some musical knowledge and be able to advise me or possibly give an example of how to order the keys in a mix to create this constant building effect I am looking for.

Naturally I am always going to be trying new things myself, but sometime it's good to just ask questions and see what other people's views are as they might surpise you or teach you something you'd have not discoverd for yourself.

I've thought about getting Mixed In Key for a while but to be honest it can be a bit of a slippery slope as people then tend to get too wrapped up in what key a track is in as opposed to picking the actual right track for the right moment.

It also depends on the music you play. Genres with alot of melodies for instance are going to obviously be more important to get the key right.

To be honest, and I may be a bit of a stickler here, I like to use the trusted pair of things stuck to the side of my head and my eyes to see what the people in front of me are doing to dictate the music and direction I go in rather than some notes on a piece of paper.

Harmonic mixing is over-rated and pointless IMO. A mix should not cetnre around the harmony and key of a given track. The only listeners that might care are other DJs and the odd producer, but as a DJ its not other DJs you need to be impressing, its the dance floor - and people wont dance more / less becuase of harmonious mixing.

Amen to that

I'm grade 8 piano, violin, singing & music theory.

TBH, on the harmonic mixing side I could bring up all that blah again on the master tempo thing, because from what people have said to me it apparently comes in handy for that. I wouldn't really know as I don't use it.

To be honest, the "building effect" I wouldn't think has too much to do with your keys....more the general track structure. But! Depending on what kind of mix it is, you could look at how you want to start, climax and end - I generally stick with minor keys, a lot of stuff is produced in simple minor & major cadences, but if I'm playing a fairly hyper swing mix I'll start off on Minor, swing into Major and then climax it back into minor. If I'm playing something a little harder that still holds some sort of notation (rather than some of the techno I play which really...generally doesn't have anything in the way of notes ;P ) - a lot of it I find will always be in the same key (hardhouse, extremely fucking easy to mix, most of it's in A minor) - so you'd then look at how much notation is used, if there are more chords than melodies, I guess it would sound more "epic" - so you'd bring it into your mix in the middle/climax...

If you can get hold of a keyboard, and check the keys of tracks, just play a simple arpeggio or chord in each of those keysigs, you can hear how each would sound and base your feeling around that.

All in all I think it really depends on the type of music you're playing. :) I might be talking bollocks, both me and my sister have spent many a drunken evening lamenting over the fact that whilst you could have the most concise education in "real" music - it will never help you with DJing, and that very issue has been a problem for me since I began, because I end up analysing things which theoretically are completely different from how my brain sees it.

*thumbs up to that*

I play a mean Triangle...

..gets coat...

For what it's worth Simon, this is worth a look, particularly for transitions. You can go 2 either side of whatever key the track you are playing is in.

its a fucking sheep.

Right guys< I've skipped down after a couple of posts to write this because I think it's important to the discussion and will go back to the top now and kep reading down. I know what the dissenters mean, but don't forget as I said in the OP I've been making mixes for a long time in the fashion that you described, so I'm trying this out simply because I can and I have the time to do it. There's not many things I enjoy more than a listen to an excellent live DJ mix that was been meticulously compiled, sequenced and mixed and if this technique can assist then I'm game to give it a try and compare the results to my previous efforts of simply using my ears to determine which tracks I wish to use and in which order they will b eplayed and how they will be mixed. Don't forget even though I'm experimenting with harmoic mixing I'll still have to determine the phrases and where to mix each record and which EQ's to adjust and when to adjust them in order to asist the transitions all of which have a big impact the end result.

But even so that's not the point of this experiment / thread. I have set paramters for this next mix recording I am working on and those parameters is to mix each track in a progression of keys in order to see how it compares to my previous efforts. naturally I will ONLY be selecting records that I deem to be good, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Steve, yeah it wa THAT wheel which got me started. but I won't buy Mixed In Key. But basically I've been buying my digital tracks and hoping over to Beatport.com as when you play a track on their media player at the top of the screen the wave form also advises the key and the BPM of the track (BPM is important as it affects the pitch / key of the track when manipulated) I've been writing the key on the CD as I use CDJ's mainly. I've also googled the harmonic scale / wheel which I've printed out and use as a reference to see which key's are compatible with each other, as it's not easy or straight forward for a layman such as myself to tell by ear what key a track is in. Ultimately it's just been for a bit of fun and to see if the quality of the mixes I put together can be improved by something as like harmoic mixing.

shhh.. its my cousin

If u come up when I've my keyboard set up mate I can run through some music theory tings which u might find handy ^_^

Overkill !!!

A DJmix should not be put together so that other DJs can stroke chins in awe of the "meticulous mixing & sequencing etc" !

This is where DJs fall down, worry way too much about stuff that doesnt matter.

A good mix needs to make poeple dance. Its just other peoples music joined up. Get the track selction and order that you play them right and you've done enough. As long as the beats match pretty well and the new tracks are brought it at the right moment its all good.

I know you're only experimenting and having a bit of fun, but the fact that you've had type essay-like text on the matter suggests that its serious !!

When Sasha & Diggers used to play epic vinyl mixes in the nineties, they just grabbed some great records and joined them up seamlessly. Job done.

Whilst I agree, Sasha was actually the pioneer of harmonic mixing around the time of the Delta Heavy tour in 01ish I believe.

Nowt wrong with a bit of fun either!

Bit too much hassle for playing out though, imo, experimenting is fun

That would be interesting, I'll have to waffle about it with you at that Kings Cross thing until it gets a bit long and we move on to dribbling in our pints :)

I feel a highly technical, unnecessarily extruded pissedup conversation brewing quite nicely mate :P

For me something like this IS fun, I like to emerse myself and really gt into the nitty gritty. Also when I record my DJ mixes I record them with the intention of listening to them again and again in the future, possibly years later as I want to hear those records, so I try to make them the very best they can be at that given moment. Sometimes though I'll just open the record collection and bust one on the fly, but I mainly like to treat a mix CD / tape in the same way people such as John Digweed would approach their next Global Underground CD, I see nothing wrong with that, it's taking pride in something I'm creating, after all if you're going to do something you might as well do it great.

Do you know what I mean?

Which pretty much the reason why I'm such a great shag ha! ;)

I really wouldn't consider it an essay though, celshaw commented on here to me "Why are your posts always five times too long" so I guess my OP was in keeping with her assesment there!

And this post!

I'll need you to explain the bottom to the top of the harmonic scale. Is C the bottom and A the top? I don't know?