Well science is making incredible advances at the moment, they can now simulate black holes and observe hawkins radiation, they have (funnily enough at the Tevatron) actual data regarding the Higgs Bosun which they are using to both prove and disprove various mind boggling theories - in fact a unified field theory is quite possibly just a few years away... but even with this information - lets just say completed - it still leaves us again with a problem, we quite possibly will never be able to describe the dynamics of the singularity we came from - the problem is the boundries of the laws of physics, gravity, time etc did not exist at this time and these are essential when making scientific conclusions...

I imagine some smart alec will say "who knows in the future what we will be able to work out" - but i think no matter how much we are able to link quantum with matter, no matter how much we are able to numerically understand gravity/gravitons - we will never be able to peak into a time where nothing exists... It makes me think that our understanding of the universe is limited...

thoughts?

I'm still a moderator in here.....where's the delete button...;-)

Im hungry.

I didn't get past the first sentence without losing attention.....

you're a singularity

ace.


my ridiculously geeky passtime is dimensional & quantum physics




i think i might regret admitting that...

there was no time to peak into. that's why you're confused :)

Yup, one. Where did you copy / paste that paragraph from?

Ahhh a pedant! lol -- ok what i should of said was 'we cant peak into the state in which a singularity occures in..... is that better?

that would be impossible anyways surely

think thats what he's saying

true that, s'alright i had my roots done last night :P

it's an impossible thought though, everything, including time, is limited within the confines of existence...we can't expect to ever know anything about nothing

so, heres the strange part - if ts impossible, does that mean the state as far a sa human being is concerned does not exsist at all? or is it that our understanding of mathmatics is fundamentally flawed?

thats the thing though - its definately something an infinitely hot and dense energy preparing itself to warp space and allow time and gravity to occur, heat and energy are not the same thing as a void - to me theres a startling contradiction there...

i think i get ya, i think basically yes - our understanding of the workings of the multiverse is incredibly flawed as it stands - and very underdeveloped

however outside of that - in the bigger picture, beyond human ability and comprehension - the understanding of "nothing" is still impossible because no matter how great the understanding of what exists, there can never be any method of gaining information of what doesn't...because it just isn't there

but then again....maybe you're asking or thinking - does nothing really exist or is it just a bi-product of the limitations of our current knowledge..?

i.e. is there an end to all dimensions? is there a point where it stops? even if its growing, what is outside of that? or, does it even stop at all?

the universe won't stop at nothing to get to where it needs to be ;P

There really isn't much point debating this bullshit as a layman. You can't have a stoner type conversation and hope to get anywhere with it.

agreed, hawkins has postulated though if we can 'somehow' gain the knowledge to understand this state then we will be able to deduce conclusively where the universe is headed... not quite sure how though!

and there it is, straight from the horses mouth, no point in continuing as no one is going to get a nobel prize for postulating, glad no one told the 'stoner' theorists that... phew lol

Sorry, can you clarify, would they be the stoner theorists with a phd in theoretical physics from an Oxbridge or Ivy League university or the stoned clubbers sitting around trying to work out the meaning of nothingness?